{"id":89,"date":"2010-05-09T23:45:36","date_gmt":"2010-05-10T05:45:36","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.frontline-command.com\/blog\/?p=89"},"modified":"2017-05-11T10:04:31","modified_gmt":"2017-05-11T16:04:31","slug":"the-question-of-scale-for-w-w-ii-28mm-gaming","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/www.frontline-command.com\/blog\/the-question-of-scale-for-w-w-ii-28mm-gaming\/","title":{"rendered":"The question of scale for W.W. II 28mm Gaming…"},"content":{"rendered":"

**********************First part of article***********************
\nHello fellow tread heads!<\/p>\n

I prefer 1\/50th (1\/48th) scale, I seen many of the 1\/56th scale models and although beautiful they look WAY to small to me – allow me to explain.<\/p>\n

We had a modeling pro come in a few years ago and gave us his assessment, at first he kept saying \u201cI don\u2019t know, something is not right with these little guys\u201d he took some with him to paint and look over.<\/p>\n

He returned after about a week and claimed he had figured out what the problem was. In his looking them over he began to explain that it was not the vehicles but the miniatures that were the problem (needless to say that went over like a rock \u2013 I mean everyone in the room except for him has invested a lot into the 28mm minis) \u2013 he further explained that their proportions are way off. You would have to re do the miniatures to fit any one of the vehicles scales.<\/p>\n

In short his conclusion for us was that the models in height are 28mm \u2013 1\/56th scale but that is where it ends.<\/p>\n

The models girth (thickness) and the weapons and equipment are along the lines of 1\/48th. This is why when you see these models inside the smaller (1\/56th scale for example) vehicles they look crammed in \u2013 because the miniatures is actually about twice the normal thickness he should be \u2013 large head, huge hands, thick torso, and so on.<\/p>\n

For the height issue there were other factors that aided us make the choice of which scale to use – most models are cast with a base attached to the feet which further adds to the height, and then most of us war-gamers add a miniature base also. Once this is done your model is in actuality 1\/48 \u2013 1\/50th scale \u2013 in height – as far as we were concerned this has to be included because the miniatures will be based in some way, shape or form.<\/p>\n

When modeling, modelers tend to place the models on the same level on a base (Dioramas and such) however their models are in proportion to one another, if you did this with these miniatures they would look way to small next to 1\/50th and way to chunky\/ large next to 1\/56th scale vehicles.<\/p>\n

Because of this information we went with 1\/48th \u2013 1\/50th because when the models are added to bases they are in height and girth more in proportion with those vehicles.<\/p>\n

***SECOND PART OF THE ARTICLE**************************<\/p>\n

Let\u2019s have a closer look at this and further explain:<\/p>\n

Your choice of scale is a personal choice – what looks good to you. However as said before the problem lays with the miniatures them selves, not the vehicles because they are “true to their scale”. No one argues that a 1\/48th, 1\/50th, or a 1\/56th is in proportions true to the scale it is representing even they tend to contract or expand slightly depending on the maker also but not by much .<\/p>\n

I have found modelers have a more objective approach to this debate because they work with much truer proportions than we gamers do, have a look at this site where a modeler (not a gamer) is baffled by the 28mm miniature:<\/p>\n

28mm “Scale” Applied to Vehicle Models as Imagined by Me <\/a><\/p>\n

It really does come down to what you are use to seeing.<\/p>\n

Here as someone mentioned so wisely – a real photo for comparison. U.S. infantry next to a Sherman tank:
\n\"\"
\nPlease note there are approximately 8 infantrymen walking next to the Sherman tank and with PLENTY of room to spare. Note the height of the men next to the vehicle.<\/p>\n

Here is a photo of a similar setting however with a 1\/50th Sherman and 28mm men on bases.
\n\"\"
\nThis vehicle barely has 4 models beside it and even though the height is correct the girth is not, the 28mm models are about 2 plus sizes too chunky. Note the model on the end is a Tamiya 1\/48th miniature and not a 28mm war gaming miniature – and again note the proportions.<\/p>\n

Here is a 1\/56th scale sherman with 28mm models…
\n\"\"
\n\"\"
\nThese photos with an even smaller vehicle (1\/56th) and compare the the photo of the actual WWII photo. In addition the Sherman is mounted on a base which really makes the girth of the 28mm models stand out – they are simply too small.
\nTry to imagine the vehicles that are suppose to be able to accommodate 10 – 12 models such as the 251 Hanomag or the U.S. M3 Half tracks in either scale.<\/p>\n

Here is a shot of a 1\/48th Tamiya U.S. Infantryman holding a B.A.R and a 28mm U.S. infantryman holding a Carbine:
\n\"\"
\nSee how the girth compares with each other? And when next to each other the 28mm miniatures look VERY odd. Once again it is because the 28mm model is not proportioned properly as a man would be. In addition the proportions transfer to the equipment the model is holding, the carbine is almost as big as the B.A.R. and the ammo pouches, packs and so on – have all increased in size.<\/p>\n

This is some of the research we had received and thus went to the larger scale of 1\/50th, for us the added cast base on the model and the added 25mm base in addition to the girth greatly increases the size of the 28mm model to the point that this was a better \u201cfit\u201c- but by no means the best. It was the opinion of the researchers that the only way it will ever be “made right” is to correct the 28mm model (which also varies greatly in scale – 25mm – 33mm) and I don’t believe that is ever going to happen due to the enormity of the ranges in the industry.<\/p>\n

I agree 100 percent that the choice is up to the individual – after all the models are yours and I have to say I really love the 28mm models as I have had collections since I was a child.<\/p>\n

However I will say know your facts and the fact is there is no 28mm vehicle line out there (unless you want on that looks like the one in the link above). We do believe though that the better fit is the 1\/48th – 1\/50th scaled vehicles.<\/p>\n

Just wanted to show why we choose to go in the direction we did.
\n****************END*********************<\/p>\n

Very simple and powerful – I like it \ud83d\ude42<\/p>\n

****************I have added this bit of information*******************<\/p>\n

I have added this bit of information due to comments made, here is the response:<\/p>\n

Hmmmm. OK, I’ll agree with you to an extent. However, that said- the point about the girth being off is not proved by your pictures.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Hmmmmm, well I believe these pictures speak a thousand words and are most definitely a show of the girth of the models being a huge problem. They stand as what they are; however here is more for you:<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

You have on your article a grayed out German soldier, if the 28mm miniatures looked more like the grayed out German soldier than you would be spot on, however we both know they don\u2019t so I have added a 28mm grayed out to your graph and you can see the stark contrast. In addition I have taken the soldier in your half track photo and added him to your graph grayed out. It is clear that the 2 end grayed out figures have much more in common than the 28mm model in the middle.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

So unless you are speaking of properly proportioned 28mm miniatures, it renders the article moot. Here is a photo of a 1\/48th, 28mm and a real man together standing next to each other and compare them. Clearly the 1\/48th model is much closer than the 28mm miniature and it further shows the exaggerated features of the 28mm model.<\/p>\n

The bases spread the figures out much more than the real ones- if you were to have the figures standing purely on their integral cast bases, they’d be a lot closer together. Another factor to consider is the choice of poses, particularly in the picture with the 1:56th tank- you’ve chosen figures that are *extremely* “wide” in their poses, so they will obviously not fit in. The fact that they are on 30mm-wide bases doesn’t help much either.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

In war gaming the bases are the AOO (Area of Operation) so you have standard base sizes for different size models and in the industry 25mm bases are such for a human size miniature. However once again let’s take your point and put it to the test. I have grayed out a 1\/50th scale Sherman and placed several 28mm miniatures in from of it and they don\u2019t come close to the actual real photo of real men walking along side it:<\/p>\n

\"\"
\n1\/50th scale Sherman<\/p>\n

This photo below is of a 1\/56th scale Sherman, a clear difference in the 2 pictures – no need for words – compare this to the real photo.
\n\"\"
\n1\/56th scale Sherman<\/p>\n

I’ve put my thoughts on the whole thing together at http:\/\/mainly28s.com\/how_to\/measuring_scale.html<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

I have read your write up and I do not see at any point that you address the girth of the 28mm miniature, in addition the models in question are on a integral base and then in most cases based again which also should be addressed. I do like your presentation though – well written but for me not complete.<\/p>\n

This is the most compelling research I have even seen, how brilliant to ask modelers and come from a modelers point of view.<\/p>\n

I do agree with the fact that it is up to the individual, but once again given the information I will go with 1\/50th scale vehicles! What ever you pick just have fun with it \ud83d\ude42<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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